The Way for the VR World: FOR EVERYONE! | Accessibility VR Meetup Recap

Thomas Logan: All right. So, we're going get started now. I want to welcome everyone to another meetup here at A11y VR. My name is Thomas Logan and I'm from a company called Equal Entry.

And we're the sponsors of this event. We created this event as a way to kind of open discussion across the web, across the world, on the topic of virtual reality and accessibility. And we want to make sure that we create as inclusive and accessible environment as possible inside of this space. So, we do currently work with the Mozilla Hubs team and report feedback from this meetup.

So, if you do have any accessibility challenges or accessibility feedback of ways for Mozilla Hubs to improve, they have been really great that they have a GitHub repository of accessibility feedback and they actively work on that. So, that's something we support and appreciate about this platform. We also, as you can see, potentially, in the bottom of this screen, or the bottom of this world, we have captions coming in. These captions are being provided by White Coat Captioning.

And we have captions for all of our events. We basically have Amanda here with us tonight creating these captions and we appreciate having those available. And those are also included on the YouTube screen. We have Joly MacFie from the Internet Society of New York, and he is the person that gets together our video stream and helps us make sure that people can participate and come back and take the learnings from everything that happens at these events.

With all that being said, I'm very excited to introduce Nicolas Perret to you today. I met Nicolas from a various VR conferences and I've been super-interested in the 3D controller. I think it's a very exciting device and learning forward to learning tonight from Nicolas. Take it away, Nicolas!

Nicolas Perret: So, okay, hello, everyone. My name is Nicolas Perret. I'm French. So, sorry for my accent.

I am senior principal engineer at -- 3D reserve. And I will talk to you about the way of the VR world with a special version for accessibility. But first, we need to define what is mainstream VR? And in fact, it's especially important for accessibility.

Mainstream VR, it's VR for everyone. And everyone will be about to use VR in the future. Everyone will -- everything will be in VR maybe in the future. And when I say everyone, this means everyone.

This means that when one day in the future we will have a real mainstream, this means that everyone will be about to use VR. Everyone will have VR at home. It will not be possible to see the difference at all with someone there and someone visible. And I think this is very, very important.

But today, the road of the VR world is broken. It's broken because the VR world has not been true for everyone. And everyone doesn't know what they want, what they need, and every what is a VR world. But to understand that, we first need to define what is the real price of virtual reality?

It's not necessarily the price of the computer you use. Not even the most expensive one. It's not necessarily the price of the headset you use. Not even the most high-end one.

And in fact, the price is more because of the way the VR are being defined today. And today, to do VR, you need space. You need a lot of space. But okay.

Do you have all the space in your house? Generally, your house has not been designed for VR. You have your house before, and you don't, some people may, but you don't have one room especially for VR. So, in fact, generally, today, with the way the VR is designed, the most expensive part of VR, in fact, it is space you need to do VR in your home.

Because in some cities, the space is very expensive. And even if you have space, you could break everything. You could break -- you could break the TV, you could break the furniture. Because you are too much in the action.

Because you don't need -- you don't see what you have around because you have a headset on the face. VR could be dangerous sometimes. And danger is not mandatory for everyone. I talk about real danger.

The danger where you can get an injury and in real life, not in VR this time. Today, in fact, if you look at what kind of VR the headset manufacturer tried to sell you, it's generally for a workout. Is everyone doing workout in real life all the time? I don't think -- not everyone do workout.

Some people may do workout. So, why today VR is mainly understood by some people to a way to do workout? And workout only. If workout in VR could be fun, it could be a way to lose weight or do some nice stuff.

I really don't think it's a good idea to try to make VR only to do workout. Do your grandma do workouts? I mean, I said it's for everyone, okay? So, this means that everyone could be your grandma.

Everyone could be some people visible. So, this means if the VR today is limited to workouts, does that mean it's not for everyone? It's only for people who want to do workouts. And in some way, it's a way to limit the user's of VR.

This means in fact that some way -- in fact, the only people interested in VR are the people who want to do workouts. So, maybe it's in the good way to think. This means that all the rest of the world are not interested in VR because it's only for workouts. Because it's not mainstream today.

And something -- and something very important in real life. In fact, not only in real life, in nature, in everything. It's the path of least resistance. It's something like a low.

You can almost apply it to everything. You can apply it to the natural when you have a short circuit. This is exactly that. When you have water flooding, it's exactly that.

The short circuit directly will go in, it will not go another way. That's why it's called a short circuit. In the case of flooding, it's the same. The water will try to find the easiest way to go.

The at least resistance. In the case of humans, the same. Humans are lazy by definition. Everything needs to be simple.

Everything needs -- and it's not the case today with VR. VR you can -- it's not adapted to people in this definition. If you want to have mainstream one day, VR needs to be adapted to everyone, needs to be adapted to people. Needs to be adapted to disabled people with any kind of disability you can have.

And disability you don't choose to have it. You can have many kinds of disabilities. So, this means that it needs to be adapted too. so, okay.

If we think today what's the biggest problem of VR that makes the VR not be the VR? If you imagine what -- what's VR? I mean, okay. Forget what you know about VR.

Try to forget. And imagine what you were thinking about VR before you try it. I think before you try it, you were imagining to go in another world. And today, you are meeting in a little space in your room.

But you are stuck in the same place. You are not able to really explore this virtual world like was dreaming before. Like you were imagining what is VR? What could be VR?

Because you didn't try. When you try it the first time -- when you try it the first time -- I'm sure you put the headset on the face and you imagine -- you imagine how you see your room and you are very impressed. But just that you saw, okay, you want to go there. You want to explore.

You want to be able to visit. You want to be -- to be free. You want to have no limit and to be able to go everywhere. And it's not possible today.

You want to interact with this VR world with your hands. You want to activate some stuff in this virtual world. Like in real life. But, okay.

Is this mean that VR is not possible? So, okay. VR exists for a very long time now. I mean, more than 20 years, something like that?

And if we just talk about the new VR, the VR that maybe possible with -- with the new kind of electronic and with what's primarily given us as the new mainstream VR in 2012. It's still not mainstream. It's still not exactly what we dream. Okay.

But to understand that, maybe we need to take a look at the past and to try to understand where the past teaches us. And we would take a look about the personal computer. So, how the personal computer became mainstream. So, we start by the first computer in 1971.

So, it's old. The first personal computer. I don't talk about big computer, okay? And after that, you have many, many, many computers, you have the Apple 1s, the Commodore PET, the Apple 2, et cetera.

And at the same time, if you look at the same -- almost the same time you have an era where the mouse had been unvented and Bill Gates. You have many companies creating computers at this time. And if you look at the number of companies, you can compare to the number of VR headsets today, the number of companies doing it. And the user age.

The user age at this time was for passionate people. Like we are today. It was for the company, it was a way to have a computer, a microcomputer, a personal computer, to manage the finance or to manage some stuff for the company. Like VR today.

So, this era is very close to what's happened today. But in 1984, you have something happen with the Apple Macintosh. The difference between the Apple Macintosh and the previous computer, it was that this computer was able to move something on the screen with a mouse. And for me, it was the first step to make the VR mainstream.

Okay. After that, you have the Windows one, but it was not very good. Until you have the Windows 3.2. And at this time was only Microsoft.

Only one. Only one company for almost everyone. Apple were almost disappeared -- almost. Come back later.

Linux and the other kind of UNIX was still there, but still almost disappearing too. And in 1989, another event of importance was the World Wide Web. And with the mouse and the World Wide Web and Windows, around the 2001 and 2009 or something like that in this, the personal computer became mainstream. Usable by everyone.

And with some interest, not only applications you have to install on it. But you have -- you were about to order something and to be delivered. You were about to study, et cetera, et cetera. And it's because of the mouse and because of the Internet.

Okay. So, if you take a look and you do an analysis about this, it took around 35 years for the computer to become mainstream. The mouse was a game changer. And the web definitively did the touchdown.

So, okay. Now we compare with VR. Okay. So, first prototype, go to market.

You have a clone of many, many products and many companies. And you start to have some kind of -- and, no, sorry. And you have the incompatibility between product -- and this is something for VR already. Because now you have open VR and stuff like that.

So, this means in fact it's possible -- it will be possible soon -- to have the same API for all the headsets. You have a lot of professional usage. And geek and passionate. And a people who want to do a workout, why not?

And for the computer, you have the mouse arrive. And you start to have some kind of compatibility, I mean, Windows, okay? You have a market consolidation, only Windows. And you start to have interconnection, interoperability, global service and usage and then mainstream.

Today we are around four. And we need to go to the five, the six, the seven, the eight and the nine to become mainstream. Okay. So, we need the mouse.

What's a mouse? I mean, for a computer. A mouse you have two things. You have the action and you have the loco motion.

In fact, if we compare -- you have the action and you have the locomotion. So, if you compare to VR, in VR you would have to separate this. Because in VR, the action will be your hands. And if something exists for a very, very long time.

Even 20 years ago they start to have some kind of glove for your hand to interact with VR. But for locomotion, people tried to find many, many ways and tried to -- to be able to have locomotion. They tried to have some kind of treadmill, stuff like that. But nothing was very usable.

And still is the case today. To understand what is VR, at first we need to understand that in VR, you are one of the controllers. Because you are able to look around. So, in VR, it's not only one device.

You need to slice the device in many functionalities. So, with that said, you can look around. With your hands, you can interact with the VR world. And you need to have locomotion.

So, do you generally walk with your hands? Not too much people are able to walk with your hands in real life. And so, in VR, it's the same. So, why would you really to want use your hands to be able to have locomotion?

It's maybe better to have your -- to use your feet. It's why in our case, we created it. I'm not here to promote it, I'm here to explain what could be the VR and why it's interesting for disabled.

Nicolas Perret: Okay. 3dRudder is a controller for the feet. So, you can use your feet to go into VR world. And you can have your hands free and you can interact freely with the virtual world.

If you can see the video, you will see that it's something you sit. This means as you sit, you run it, you don't need a lot of space. You -- and in fact it's more immersive than you may imagine because the brain works very well with this. You don't have any learning curve.

It's immediate. You even don't have to explain. And to understand in fact is what I said. The VR -- the mouse of the VR will be something like the interaction with your hands.

And something like -- I don't want to say only the 3dRudder -- so far free locomotion with your feet. And in our case, we have another video. And that Thomas can give the link to. The link is in the bottom.

And it's Oculus Quest. And it's the tracking of your hand. And you can use the motion of the 3dRudder. And it's with the motion of the device.

It's not in the market yet, but we should work with Facebook to be able to do it. We were about to do it before. We did start to talk with them and start to work with them just before the -- and, no. Bye, bye.

Okay. The brain in VR. It's what I explained before. The 3dRudder uses the plasticity of the brain.

This means in fact it will become almost natural-like if you were connected like your brain was connected to the device in some way. And as -- as everything is in your head and the physical part of your yourself is not that important. When people will say I want to be standing generally, they are in VR, and like they are inside, and they imagine because they watch them from the outside, but they don't watch them from the inside.

And because of the way the brain works, you have less motion sickness because you use your feet. The 3dRudder uses the neural connection between the brain and the feet and this produces the sequence. It's not perfect, but it is reducing. So, I put the conclusion here, because something interesting with what we do for the disabled people is something that's generally not happened nowhere.

What we do is to create a device for everyone. And this device is usable for disabled people. This means an investment for this device is the same for both. And it's interesting for VR.

It's also interesting for not-VR. I think you saw the presentation before about this. Because you have many people who cannot play video games. It's very important for them.

It's not for every kind of disability, but it's interesting for some kinds of disability when people only have one hand or no hand, for instance. They are able to play video games again because they can use their feet. And we did work with Microsoft to be compatible with that, for instance. We did start to work with Sony, but so far it's gone nowhere.

But maybe it will one day. It works on PC. On PC you can use your feet to do -- to go to the Internet, for instance. And with your feet, you can move the mouse and click on the page of your computer.

In fact, you can click in your computer only with your feet without actually a mouse. And in the case of the VR, I come back to what I said before, to have mainstream VR, you will need to have something like the 3dRudder. You have to have the free locomotion and you will have something like the web today. I don't talk about the web VR. talk more about the web of the VR.

The web VR is not for many reasons. Because you are currently in the modular Earth, it looks nice, but it's not that nice. It's no the exactly what you are, it's not what you imagine to be the graphic of the future. It's very basic, very flat, very et cetera.

Because you need a lot of -- to do it correct. And the web browser is not for that. It's made to display HTML. Not meant to display a very complicated 3D world.

So, we would have to create something different for the web of the VR. Create something very adapted to the web of the VR. And it's very important to understand what is "Web." The web.

World Wide Web. Web means the interconnection between the server. And this is what -- this is it. This is what makes the Internet usable by everyone and be able to be updated quickly but for everyone.

You can -- et cetera. Because you don't have to install something. You have to have the web browser, and after that, you only have to go to the web. And you get any information you want.

And in VR, it's the same. In VR, you can I think the same. You can learn something because you are inside of the action. Imagine, for instance, the second -- the first, and you go in France, I'm French, sorry, and you go and you can see the people and you can learn that, you have a German on one side, the French-Canadian, American on the other side.

And they find -- but you can see by your eyes. You don't have to read it like you do generally in the school. And it could be for that, it could be for medical, go inside the bodies, see all the organs and check something. It can be for many.

And with the web of the VR, this could help a lot to have the VR. These are keys. And you have two keys. The keys, the locomotion and the second key is the web.

That's it. If you have that, we have the mainstream VR. Because it Contains the VR, and we allowed it to do everything. You will have the ability to go everywhere and to explore everywhere.

Okay. Any questions?

Thomas Logan: Great. Thank you so much. Let's open it up now for questions.

Hi Nicolas, I have one question.I wanted to ask you. Aren;t you adding more to the cost to the VR users? I think that the most common problem right now, like why VR is not more mainstream, is because of the cost. And you are adding [inaudible] another hardware that people need to buy, in order to play it.

Thomas Logan: So, this was the question around the cost of the device.

Nicolas Perret: What -- what I explain in the -- it's in fact the most important part of the cost is not that set. It's not the computer. The most important part of the cost today is the space you need. And in all cases, the headset, well, maybe not the computer, it may be different.

Because it becomes even more powerful. And when you have a standalone headset, the price is reduced. You will be surprises in a few weeks. But some price will be coming.

I can't say all of that. But the price of the headset is not that important. And it's not what makes -- people don't buy it. It's because you don't have the contained.

If you don't buy the thing and you don't have content, you don't need it. The content is not there and you don't have the content because you don't correspond. You don't have what you imagined.

Great.

I'm not sure I agree. Look at how many PlayStations are sold at 400. This more has to do with content, I think. And access.

I think Nicolas is on to something.

Yeah, thank you. And I mean, just to tack on to, you know, one of the reasons we currently host the event in Mozilla Hubs is from that accessibility perspective as well. That because you can join this in a headset and you can join it from a regular computer. That's a benefit.

Yes, but in fact it's always interesting what is important.

Thomas Logan: Yes. So, any other questions?

I wouldn't mind hearing him talk more about VR sickness. Because I think in VR, this is a little bit questionable.

Thomas Logan: Yeah, I thought that was interesting about the foot and the connection to the brain. To the foot connection and maybe help you alleviate sickness.

Nicolas Perret: Okay. The VR sickness in fact is based on the fact that your brawn sees a difference between what you feel and what you see. Okay? It's not a mandatory link to the VR -- what's the name of that?

What you have in your ear? Sorry for my English. To have the --

The vestibular system.

Nicolas Perret: Yes. I was searching for the word. It's not only that, it's only one part of it. It's also some part of the body, in the case of the VR are important.

And the fact to use a computer and you get the sickness because when you do the action to -- the constant action to have locomotion with your feet, it's something natural for the brain. And this means that for rotation, for instance, that is generalized sickness. It's a lot less sickness in the case of the 3dRudder. And we have an experiment in the PlayStation 4 using in fact on PlayStation 4 using the -- one of the interests of the PlayStation 4 headsets is the fact that this headset you can go to 120 frames by second.

And with this experience, we have at this rate of 120 frames per second, and on this demo, it's very important, but on this demo, based on a sample from PlayStation, no one has ever been sick using it and moving around like crazy on this one. That's why I said it's important. And in fact the headset is very important for that, the primary. That's maybe the most important part of it.

We have the proof of it when you have some kind of shock. When you have some kind of shock, when you go down or something like that, you become sick, generally. So, it's not perfect. It doesn't work in all cases.

But what I guess is in the future in the case of PlayStation 5, maybe, with the headset of the PlayStation 4 maybe because the PS will arrive in two or three years. It will be interesting to have a very interesting experience. And you will not have this kind of sickness anymore. And in the future, with the headset and the core of the headset, you may have the same.

And it's not today that is the case. Because if you compare the headsets, they are 90 frames maximum generally. You only have headsets that can go to 125. So, you don't constantly see the difference.

But your subconscious and your brain see it. That's why it's very important. We have in France, a company doing -- I don't know where they are now. But they started to do a little device you can put in close to your eyes and if you work with a headset because you have put it on the face on the right and left of the eye.

And something like the screen. And you have an accelerometer on this. And if you move your head, the accelerometer moves kind of close to your eyes and this makes the same kind of effect. Makes that you are not sick.

And thaw say you are not sick at all. I didn't try it so I don't know and I'm not sure. And I don't know today if thaw still exist because of the COVID. But they are the good solution for this.

They were still in prototype. They should have sent me one. But I didn't get it yet. But I talked with them and it looks like they're very confident that it's a good solution.

Thomas Logan: Great. So, we've got time for one more question on this stream. So, if none else has more questions, we'll take one last question.

Okay.

Well, so, I'll have a question. And so, can you talk about the device itself? Like for doing sort of like foot gestures or like how you click or what can kinded of be assigned with the button presses from your feet?

Nicolas Perret: I mean, okay. On a computer, to replace the mouse, you mean?

Yeah.

Nicolas Perret: Okay. In fact, on the 3dRudder, you have an accelerometer. And the meter. You have a -- like if you have in a headset.

But in the top you have like the balance. And you can do like a button, especially for people that are visual and are very sensitive to this. You can do many things with that. You can click the button, keep -- so, it's work.

You need to --

Like your right click, for example?

Nicolas Perret: You can configure it on the computer. But it depends because you have -- you can say -- because you have four axis, okay? Don't have only two. So, if the four axis, you have many kinds of configurations.

It depends on what people do. So, you can use a rotation, for instance. But generally people use a rotation for the -- for the turning the wheel. You turn.

But in fact you can -- you can use, for instance, more pressure in your left feet or your right feet. Something like that, you see? So, you can do it.

Thomas Logan: Thank you very much, Nicolas.