Breaking into Digital Accessibility Careers, Part 2

LOUISE: If you attended part one, the first breaking into the digital accessibility profession, you will know that I created a presentation that could have gone on for weeks. So... I'm very excited to be back. And I wanted to say that this go-round, I slimmed down the presentation slides, and really what we're going to do is more of a kind of resource walkthrough.

And kind of get into how I thought about... And we'll also talk with Ken... How we thought about trying to break into the accessibility profession. So...

You already met me. So I'm going to skip through mine. Except to say that: If you do need to contact me, if you want to continue the conversation, please feel free to reach out on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really my best spot.

Or at my email, which is [email protected]. And also I do work for the US Digital Service. But I am representing myself and all thoughts and discussion here are my own.

KEN: Thank you, Louise. Hi. My name is Ken Sumiyoshi. I am an accessibility tester at Equal Entry, and I also just started my new job at LSAC Law School Admission Council as an accessibility analyst.

And I started learning about digital accessibility last year. I had no experience. So if you want to specialize in accessibility, but have no experience, don't worry about the experience. I would like to help.

And I'm currently working on Section 508 trusted tester certification. And also plan to take web accessibility specialist exam some time next year. I'm looking for a study partner. If interested, please reach out to me.

Thank you.

LOUISE: That's amazing. Yes, yes. Ken has recently gone through this process of transitioning. So he is going to be a wealth of information.

And as this conversation is going to be very casual, and please ask as many questions as you need or want. And we'll go ahead and get started. The agenda for today. Or this evening, for me...

I want to quickly review part 1, and just make sure that everyone is aware of where to find the resources that were shared last time. Second part of the presentation will really be about different career paths in accessibility. And how you might get there. And things you might consider learning about, or trainings, people to know.

And follow. So we'll talk about all of that. Developing an accessibility practice. That's the third part.

We will go through a few tips that both Ken and I have really found useful for ourselves, as we each transitioned into the accessibility field. And then I promise time for questions and answers. So... I'm gonna be very mindful of time.

Okay. So to review: I have a screen here. It says let's review. And I have an image of the resource page that is linked on the Equal Entry website.

And actually, I'm going to open that up. And just peruse the index here. So the last time that we talked, I was trying to explain to people that in order to get into digital accessibility work, you want to make sure that you are centering people with disabilities and the conversations that are happening in the disability community, as well as the digital accessibility community. You know, with digital accessibility, it's all about trying to find solutions to breaking down barriers.

So that everyone can use technology equally. And have access to information and services. And in particular, trying to solve for problems for people with disabilities. So we talked about different books and movies, documentaries that you might watch.

To get some context. Perhaps gain some empathy. And to think about just the issues. We also reviewed topics like ableism, and I guess I can go through.

And I have a variety of resources. And I try to provide a range. So, for example, with ableism, we've got several resources on ableism itself, explaining the meaning of ableism. But then also talking a little bit about the intersectionality of ableism.

Like I said, films involving disability, some important concepts, like avoiding inspiration porn. What does that even mean? So you want to definitely watch this... It was a TED Talk, I believe.

I'm not your inspiration, thank you very much. By Stella Young. I think she recently passed away. But boy...

She really taught me something. Documentaries. Documentaries are also really great to get into some of the legal background understanding. So the power of 504, and if you watch the documentary film Crip Camp, you'll learn about that as well.

So documentaries. Intersectionality and disability justice. I put in several different resources here for you. And then of course, kind of getting into...

We started getting into web accessibility perspectives. You know, how people with disabilities might use the web, the technology, the assistive technology they use. To be able to navigate the web. So you certainly wanted to get educated on that.

Topics around the specific different types of assistive technology. And I think that was... And then a final section on some of the resources shared during the presentation. So that was just a quick overview of what we covered.

Definitely go back and check that out. Okay. And before we actually get to career paths, I wanted to... I didn't get to this last time.

You know, disability rights laws -- it's just something that you should be familiar with. And you know, find information in a digestible format. I understand it can be very overwhelming to read the legalese. But I wanted to show a few links.

I have on the slide just a few pieces of legislation that are -- you know, disability rights laws in the United States. So I have the rehabilitation act, section 504. Section 508. Americans with Disabilities Act.

The ADA. Communications and video Accessibility Act. The Affordable Care Act, section 1557. So...

But these are just a few. And I have some links here. The first one is a guide to disability rights laws. It's on the ada.gov website.

I highly recommend... This is a really complete kind of overview for you. If you would like to take a look at all of the different disability rights laws in the United States. Also... I wanted to share...

Oop. This amazing resource. I don't know how many of you have heard about Lainey Feingold. But she has been a real inspiration to me in her advocacy and in her work.

She has the most amazing website. I think it's actually WCAG 2.1 AAA compliant. I'm not entirely sure. But I think I remember that.

But aside of that, she has an amazing blog. Does a lot of legal updates. And I just am showing this to you, because there's so much here that you can learn about... Do I have the right thing open for you?

Oh, I have About Lainey. But what I want to show you is the legal updates blog. So this is a great blog for you to go and learn about current -- what's going on currently. Lainey always does a wonderful kind of legal update at various events throughout the year.

I highly encourage you to find one. Usually you can find one that you can access for free. But sometimes she's at conferences. So...

This is a fantastic blog that you should definitely, definitely follow. And while you're reading about these cases, you'll gain more understanding about the... How disability rights laws impact and support people with disabilities. And don't worry.

All of my links... If I don't open every single one of them, I am going to have them provided to Equal Entry, and they are going to post a resource guide part two. So for example, I have a link here. But I'm gonna go ahead and move along.

It's a just in time training module about understanding the ADA that I also encourage you to check out.

KEN: Hey, Louise, can I speak a little bit?

LOUISE: Absolutely.

KEN: So as you said earlier, I watched Crip Camp. It was a very good movie. It talks about -- a lot about laws, civil rights laws, and history. And I think that is something you can enjoy watching with your family.

Even if you're not interested in accessibility. It's a very good movie to watch. So I want everyone to watch that.

LOUISE: I think that was one of the first things we did, right? It was one of our first kind of homework assignments. Ken was...

KEN: Homework.

LOUISE: Accessibility next gen mentorship program. And that was one of the things that we decided to watch and talk about. At our next mentoring session. But you're absolutely right.

I watched it with my family too. My husband is a history professor. And he was amazed at how much he didn't know about disability rights. Yeah.

It was cool. Thanks for mentioning that. Same with disability guidelines. Of course, we all want to get familiar with disability guidelines, if we're going into digital accessibility work.

It can be pretty overwhelming. But also well worth it to read through. I do have several... Well, let me just show you this first link.

I find this... This is a resource called how to meet WCAG, the quick reference. And I actually use this to filter down, if I'm trying to... It's got this filter tab.

And if I want to figure out, for example, if I want to test something, according to WCAG 2.1. I'm trying to figure out what WCAG requirements are related to something I'm... I would say developing. So maybe I would unclick the other roles.

And I'm gonna develop some buttons. And I've selected buttons. I'm gonna unclick level AAA, because at my work, hypothetical work, they're wanting level AA WCAG 2.1. So that's what I want to figure out.

I'm fine to look at sufficient techniques and advisory techniques and failures. And usually I leave on the technologies. And it will then give you some of the guidelines that are related to developing buttons. And I love that.

And you just have to open up... You know, all of the different hidden content. And you'll find all sorts of great information. And I find that a useful tool, both for developing and developers who might be needing to figure out what WCAG criteria they're trying to remediate, perhaps.

Or for designers, who are trying to... Let's see. I can go up here and say... Instead of developing, I might be a visual designer.

And I'm gonna select buttons. And then I'll decide I've got some other different guidelines. Not different. But maybe additional.

Maybe I'll pick some good ones. Maybe I'll talk about focus. Yeah. So this is a pretty cool way to have an interactive experience with the guidelines.

And if just reading them from top to bottom is not your jam... So I wanted to share that resource. Have you used this before, Ken? For your...

At all?

KEN: I did, I did. Yeah.

LOUISE: I know I'm pretty US-centric, because that is my experience. But I did recently take this. There's a free AODA training online for Canada. So please...

I love all free resources. Definitely use those as much as you can. And there's lots of them out there. Try to highlight those for you.

But that's a free training that has been offered around those guidelines. And then you know, when I think about the EU, I think about WCAG 2.1, because that's what their guidelines' directives are tied to. So I have a couple links here. One is by Glenda Sims, "The Goodwitch".

She has this blog. Understanding WCAG 2.1. A history of WCAG. I think it's important to know.

If you're gonna get into digital accessibility, it's important to know the evolution of the guidelines that we are following. And this is actually a blog series, as well as a video. But she really writes a really fantastic article and blog series here. And another great series, if you are getting into digital accessibility, and you're like...

WCAG 2.0, WCAG 2.1, what's the difference -- well, Knowbility has this amazing series on WCAG 2.1. They talk about the update that happened in 2018. Give you background. But here's the best part.

I mean, it's all great. Right? It talks about the new success criteria. Walks you through that.

But what is really amazing -- and I'm sorry this scrolling is... It's actually making me sick. I have a little bit of my own vestibular disorder with movement... But at the bottom of the post, there is a continuation of the blog, where it breaks down each of the additional WCAG 2.1 success criteria that got added.

And tells you what it was all about. And how you can... You know, apply it in your work. So this is a really fantastic series.

And I'll just check in with you, Ken. Do you have anything additional about the guidelines?

KEN: Actually, I have a question about the Knowbility resource. Does it have a version 2.2?

LOUISE: Good question. Yes. WCAG 2.2? I hope that they will do this same thing.

Let's just see here. I will put in resources... I'll tell you, usually what I do is I'll go to Google, like I'm doing. And I'm like...

WCAG 2.2... What's new? And I'll just Google that. And oh, hey, somebody has already got that.

Heidi. You know? And so you go in here and... Boo.

Don't go to that resource. But... Any of these other resources... Look.

Fable has a WCAG 2.2. What changes and how does it impact users? Adrian Roselli has what's new. Another thing I want you to keep in mind is that when you're looking at resources, make sure you're checking the date in a Google search.

Because things change so rapidly. You just want to make sure you're getting the most current information. Unless of course you're tying yourself -- or your work is only demanding a WCAG 2.0. Which is section 508 -- that's what section 508 websites are tied to.

So anyway, you might be looking at older resources there. But... Knowbility, please do this for WCAG 2.2! Okay.

Career paths in accessibility. Before we get started with career paths, a couple of reminders. These are super important. And this quote -- I swear I'm gonna have it tattooed on me.

We must use our skills as technologists to protect the equal rights of users. And that is a quote by Marcy Sutton. And I'm gonna tell you all about her later, when I talk about developers. But...

You know, you can see my notes. But I will read... I am gonna read this. Digital accessibility is about so much more than compliance.

It is about people. It is about helping people, being able to help them use services, access services, information, you know... It's the reason why we as technologists, whatever role we are, it really doesn't matter. We all have to help out with making digital products and services accessible for people with disabilities.

Also, say this -- I have this sentence here. The Americans with Disabilities Acts Amendment, the ADA, and section 504, the rehabilitation act, of 1973, are federal civil rights laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability. Right? So as technologists, we have to support this.

We have to support people's civil rights. I do have... And I'm going to open this one up. At least I think I am.

A link of Marcy Sutton. And this is... A wonderful presentation on JavaScript and civil rights. The title is actually: JavaScript and civil rights: Using your skills for the good of the people.

Right? So I highly recommend watching this video. And if you scroll down, Marcy has a fantastic slide deck. That I'll also open up.

And... She talks about JavaScript and civil rights. Goes into... You know, the aspects of civil rights, and she talks about...

You know, how accessibility intersects with all of these other things, including, like, safety, privacy, freedom of speech. So I highly recommend this. You checking that out. And...

Yes. Digital products and services must be accessible for people with disabilities. Non-negotiable. In my opinion.

And I have this link here. I wanted to make sure and share this with you. The why and how of accessible design with Samuel Proulx, from Fable. I'll open that up, so you can see it.

But this is a really great podcast. And it was... You know, it is specific to accessible design. Or he's talking about accessible design.

But really, the first... I don't know... Ten minutes is all about why you should be motivated to do accessible design. And that really...

That advice that Samuel gives in this podcast can be for any technologist. So I wanted to link that. And I also wanted to read this. From the Department of Justice.

According to the Offices for Civil Rights, for both the DOJ and the DOE, quote: "accessible" means a person with a disability is afforded the opportunity to acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as a person without a disability in an equally effective and equally integrated manner, with substantially equivalent ease of use. The person with a disability must be able to obtain the information as fully, equally, and independently as a person without a disability.

So as a technologist, this has to be front and center. In all of your work. You don't have to be an accessibility specialist. You just have to be building products and services, and then this should be some of the first things that you think about.

Before you build. Before you design.

LOUISE: Okay. So we said... Who is responsible for digital accessibility? And that's everyone.

So the different roles that we're talking about -- first we're gonna focus on the roles that are involved in software development. So this is where we'll talk about... How do I... Oh, sorry.

You don't want a very small version of this slide. How do I become an accessibility focused fill in the blank? I don't know. Let's see.

Now, I have an image here, and the image is... I'm gonna open up... It's available as an HTML... As a link.

All of this content. But it says: Who is responsible for accessibility? And it's got... And I'll name the different roles.

You know, policy, managers, researchers, product. UI designers. Developers. UX designers.

Writers. QA. Accessibility gurus. But all of these people are responsible -- all of these roles are responsible for accessibility.

And so I'm going to first open up and show you... Where I pulled this image from. Ontario government, inclusive design toolkit. And I think they built this in tandem with Deque.

But you can access a PDF or a PowerPoint that deals with: Who is responsible for accessibility. Who is typically excluded. And there's all sorts of resources that they make available about making services accessible. In this case, it's government services accessible.

But I thought the resources and the imagery were good. And so... When you're thinking about breaking into accessibility careers, if you're thinking about software development, and you're thinking about all of these roles, one of the things I wanted to advise you is to work backwards. In determining how you would want to break in.

And actually, so there's two things you want to think about. Or... I'm assuming there's two segments of people, maybe, watching this. I would think there's a segment of you who are thinking about transitioning to a career in some sort of digital accessibility.

And you are currently not in the technology space at all. And that's fine.

KEN: It's like me.

LOUISE: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No, go ahead and tell them kind of your background.

KEN: So my background was mechanical engineering. But my last job was support engineer. So it's not that technical. But...

You know, I have some people who have a disability around me. So my passion about accessibility comes from there. So that's why I want to help them. So that's my goal.

So that's why I started to study about digital accessibility.

LOUISE: I love your motivation. That's awesome.

KEN: Thanks.

LOUISE: Actually, I think that you were helping a friend, I believe. Trying to... It was trying to use a screen reader for...

KEN: Yeah, yeah. I know this person through... He's my coworker. My old coworker.

I actually have a couple people who have a disability at my old job. And I wanted to help them. As soon as I learned about assistive technology, I taught them how to use screen readers. Or CBAND scanners, stuff like that.

Because if you study about accessibility a little bit, like, a couple months, you are already ahead. Because so many people, they are not even aware of accessibility. So even if you learn a little bit, you are able to help other people. Yeah.

LOUISE: That's such an amazing point. You're absolutely right. Just developing the awareness lets you help people. That's cool.

KEN: Thank you.

LOUISE: No, thank you. Okay. So... Either you're from tech or you're not.

But as we just explained, really developing that awareness is that first step, and you can already start making a difference. I'm gonna show you what I call working backwards. And this has always been my strategy, when I'm trying to find... If I'm trying to find a new career, or I'm trying to find a new path, or I'm just trying to figure out what's out there...

Right? So I work backwards. And I look at what... Maybe job listings.

And I make notes from job listings. What are they looking for? I have no idea what that certification is. I'm gonna go check that out.

Or I have no idea what that term that they're using is. I'm gonna go look that up. And that's how I start kind of building an understanding of what a particular career community is about. So I have listed a few different resources.

I'm gonna open up some of them. Maybe I'll start with... Actually the Teach Access Toolkit. And then I want to look at the accessibility roles and responsibilities.

So Teach Access is a really fantastic organization. And they have published this Accessibility Skills Hiring Toolkit. And you're thinking... Well, I'm not hiring.

I want to be hired! Exactly. So you want to look at what they're asking you, right? What are they gonna ask you in an interview?

So let's start with something that people might be familiar with. Like... Let's look at a content author. And I started with content author, because I find...

I have a friend who is a former teacher, and loves to write. Spends a lot of time editing, grading papers, and is like... How can I break into tech? And I was saying...

Well, you know, go explore the content space. Content authors are the ones providing the framework of websites with words. So take a look... And you can look at that list.

We'll go back. But for a content author, they're gonna give you a position description. So you're gonna see some of the different things that they're responsible for doing. Would that be something I would like to do?

That's what you want to ask yourself. Create content with accessibility in mind. Use content authoring and publishing platforms that support accessibility. Create alternatives for media content.

Alt text, image descriptions, captions. I have a friend of mine who is blind, and she was telling me about the concept of audio hierarchy. Right? So we think about visual hierarchy.

And how things are organized in a logical and clean format. But I hadn't thought about audio hierarchy. And how we need to be thinking about how things sound. As much as how things look.

And that makes a content author a wizard of words. Or they literally have to make magic with their text. So that the audio hierarchy is not cluttered, but is also descriptive enough that a person has equal access to the information being presented. Right?

And alternative content... If you're really new to accessibility, it's the content that you can't see. Like, if there's a photo on a screen, a screen reader will read what we call alt text. It will read that out, so that a person who is blind will know what the picture -- the meaning, intent of the picture being presented.

So you can go write that down on your list of things to learn about. Alt text. Tons of stuff. Qualifications.

What are they looking for? Ah. The plain writing act of 2010. What the heck is that?

Can I tell you -- I just recently learned about the plain writing act of 2010. And it's because I started working in government. Right? Plain writing -- plain language guidelines.

So I have this. I think I can just find it. Plain language guidelines. If you're interested in getting into content, these are a fantastic set of guidelines.

So the official guidelines are developed, so your users can... And this is written for government people, but everyone should be using this. To find... So that your users can find what they need, understand what they need, and use what they find to meet their needs.

Right? And if you look at some of the different guidelines, write for your audience. Right? Do the research.

Address your user. Write for your audience. You really don't want to write... This says for 8th graders.

We usually... In a lot of instances aim for a 5th grade reading level when writing web content. Okay. I'm not gonna go too far.

There's some great... Okay. Maybe I will. There is an application, where you can test...

Hemingway Editor. The reading level of something. And it will show you... This is so cool.

You can take any bit of content, you can throw it in the Hemingway App, and it will tell you about your writing. How readable it is. So... For my content authors, use this app.

Play around with words. Look at some different websites. And figure out how they're making their content readable. I wanted to go back to the plain language guidelines really quickly.

You can see some of these other aspects of how to write. In plain language. In language that communicates your intent. Organize your information.

Choose your words carefully. Be concise. Keep it conversational. Design for reading.

Follow web standards. Yay! Test your assumptions. All of these guidelines...

I mean, I started reading these, and as a former teacher, right, a former history teacher, I read through these, and I was like... I can do this. This makes sense. So I have linked the whole website here.

There is so much. There's trainings. There's free trainings. Take advantage of what's offered.

Okay. And that is a content author. So, see, you don't have to even work in code. Although...

You might want to learn a little bit of it. But you could start with words. Okay. Let me just show you one more.

Frontend developer. So if you are working in code, you can come here and... Here we've got different responsibilities. Right?

For a frontend developer. Making sure you know those WCAG 2.1 requirements. Here's a concept that we can't explore. But that you should know about.

WAI-ARIA. Right? What else do they have here? Another topic would be...

Good semantic code. Look up semantic code! So I highly recommend -- I know we're running out of time. So I'm going to just leave this here.

So that I can show you another resource. But you can see all of these different ones. Actually, Ken, I would love for you to talk about the quality assurance tester. This is...

So if you're designing, then you're developing, you're coding. And then you're checking it. To make sure it's accessible.

KEN: Sure. So the accessibility tester role... The main responsibility is to find accessibility issues. Right?

And for this role, it depends, but you don't have to necessarily know how to fix the issues. But you have to know how to... How it should be. And you have to be able to explain why it's an issue.

So you need to be familiar with automation tools, assistive technologies, and manual testing is required as well. But most importantly, you need to empathize with the users. Like... Maybe screen readers will have a problem with this control.

Maybe keyboard users cannot access this information. So then you can address the issues and explain why it's an issue. So empathy with the user is important for this role, I think.

LOUISE: Absolutely. Thank you. Absolutely. All right.

I wanted to also show you... The accessibility roles and responsibilities mapping. This is a fantastic resource. If you Google just this, and you start reading through these documents, you can learn a little bit more on some of those software developer roles, like being a designer.

So I'll click on being a designer. And it will show you... This is helping you understand how what you are doing... And again, this will walk you through some of the kind of situations that you might face as a designer or developer.

And the thing that's nice about this is that... It ties some of what your work is to some of the WCAG success criteria. So you can kind of get an understanding of how this might be something that you are really focused on making sure it's your responsibility that you have keyboard focus states that are planned for active elements. Right?

So that's gonna be your primary role as an interaction designer. But then a visual designer is also going to play a part. And so I, again, recommend... Don't have time to go through everything here.

But recommend looking at the responsibilities mapping. Watching -- there are several different trainings that are out on YouTube. Of people like Denis Boudreaux, talking about the purpose of the accessibility roles and responsibilities mapping. And so you'll get a lot of great information about...

You know, what is the role itself? What are the tools that are used by these different roles? And then how are they responsible for accessibility? Because the big...

Again, the big idea here is: Every role has a part to play in accessibility. Okay. And I want to... I know we're running up on time.

So I'm gonna switch us into our tips. But I do want to let you know... I will have resources. Ken and I have put together some resources for designers, developers, content authors.

QA people. That is both... Concepts you should be thinking about, but also trainings that you might want to take. So I will have that in the resource guide.

And I also wanted to highlight that this question here... What about digital accessibility opportunities for people with disabilities? So I have several resources here. One, I highlight...

Deque is a company that has a university and course -- training courses around accessibility. And they have full scholarships for people with disabilities. Fable has several trainings. I'll show Fable.

Their website. Gosh. Fable, they have trainings -- getting started in web development with Kelly Ford. Who is blind.

And you know, is talking about being a developer. And how to be a developer. And use all of these different softwares. For coding.

For development skills. So I have that linked. Fable also has a tester program, where you can become a tester. Getting paid to...

I love their mission. Fable is powered by people with disabilities. And we need your power. So definitely check out Fable, in terms of if you want to become an accessibility tester and learn about that.

Okay. There are other programs to highlight. VMWare is another company. They have a neurodiversity internship hiring program.

So that link will be there. And I think I'm gonna have to skip roles outside of software development. But just know that there are certainly so many roles. Procurement.

Or maybe the legal space. Or the advocacy space. Multimedia, if you're into film and video. Podcasting.

Captioning. I mean, there's so many jobs that are outside of, you know, designer, developer, QA, the software development life cycle. And so we want to... And maybe just take five minutes and say...

We have these tips for developing an accessibility practice. Which is important. For me, developing an accessibility learning mindset. Surrounding yourself with podcasts and blogs and newsletters.

You know, fill your environment with digital accessibility. Attend conferences. Write about your experience at a conference. That is always interesting.

Ken, do you want to speak to developing your daily skills?

KEN: Yes. Sure. So you showed me a lot of resources, and I did some online courses. But since that time, I did not have an accessibility job.

Right? So I was like... Where can I use my skill and knowledge? Because I didn't want to forget what I learned.

I wanted to use it. So what I did is: At my old job, if I created a PDF document, I made sure it's tagged. If I created a video, I made sure I put captions and transcriptions there. And I also...

If I post an image on Twitter or Facebook or whatever, social media, image description is there. And you can also teach your friends or family members how to use assistive technology. And also you can just listen to people who have disabilities. And I mean...

If you don't know people with disabilities... Louise can show who to follow. So you can ask Louise about it. And I also practice my semantic HTML skill by making accessible resumes.

Because I made my resume in an HTML file. That was a really good practice.

LOUISE: That's awesome. That's a great tip.

KEN: Yeah. And I also helped my friend's portfolio, to make it accessible. And I did accessibility tests on random websites. By using assistive technology or automation too.

Yeah. Those are the things I did.

LOUISE: You know, that's such an important point, Ken. That you don't have to have accessibility in your job title to value accessibility, digital accessibility. Or to practice...

KEN: I agree.

LOUISE: Digital accessibility. It should be part of everybody's practice, truly. Certainly you can find jobs where you get to really express that passion for digital accessibility. But in the mean time, think about what Ken was saying.

What are the things in your current job that you can do and make it more accessible? Because those are the things you can talk about in a job interview. Yeah, sure. Maybe you haven't had an accessibility job before.

But hey, in my current job, you did all the things that Ken just suggested. One thing I want to say: If you are applying for accessibility jobs, make sure your resumes are accessible. Get them checked. We don't all have that skill set.

But work with someone and make sure it's accessible. Value that. Make sure if you're a designer, make sure your sites are accessible. That you're demoing your portfolio sites.

I would probably also leave you with: It's never too early to volunteer. For places like Accessibility New York City. And other Meetup groups. Non-profits.

I will provide some lists of all sorts of disability organizations that you can volunteer for and that way, you can get proximity and actually meet real people and talk with real people and develop relationships with real people w ith disabilities.

THOMAS: Hi. It's Thomas again, from Equal Entry. And I'll just put in a quick reemphasis that these tips and this training here really works. As mentioned, I think a really big part of the reason why Ken started working with us at Equal Entry -- we respected the mentorship that he received from Louise.

And that's a big part, you know, of a lot of connections, and why we have the Meetup, is meeting people. But you know, building trust, and then giving someone a job. I mean, the mentorship is really important. It worked, right?

Happy to sort of be living proof of what was presented, that we've been so happy with Ken's work with us at Equal Entry. And he learned so much from Louise. Yeah. Let's go to...

We have a couple questions. We have time for a few questions. So I'm gonna give you a couple questions now. One...

First one. I work in online education at a university. And accessibility is often put back on the back burner. As there is no time, resources, or support from leadership.

Any advice in how to navigate this situation?

LOUISE: That is... That is a very, very common situation. I actually have people that pop into my head, that are running university accessibility programs, and I think it would be worth connecting you with them. If you can make sure and reach out to me, on LinkedIn, and I will make that connection, so you can talk directly with someone in the university space, but yes, trying to motivate people to accomplish digital accessibility, you know, the thing is...

You have to shine your light as bright as you can. Make it part of your practice. And keep raising it. Even though I know sometimes you feel like...

Oh, I'm bringing up the accessibility concerns. But... No! You're bringing up the accessibility concerns because we are talking about civil rights.

And if you are in a university space, they should be very concerned with not violating people's civil rights. Particularly their students! And not to mention their employees. So...

I know we don't have enough time. But I have people that I would love to connect you with, that work in that space. And they can give you... I'm sure even more advice.

THOMAS: Great. And yes, we'll be responsive to the time. So thank you, Louise, for being available to have people also send some of the questions to you. Via LinkedIn.

So we'll take one last question. I'm a computer science undergraduate student, looking to get into accessible technology, AT. There aren't a lot of internship roles listed in this area. What do you recommend?

From someone at that stage?

LOUISE: I saw some great internships come across with Yahoo, actually. Did you see that, Thomas? It was an accessibility internship. Gosh.

MERYL: Teachaccess.org. I'll put it in the chat box.

LOUISE: I'm sorry. I didn't understand.

MERYL: Teachaccess.org. I put it in the chat box for you.

LOUISE: Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. Of course.

Of course. Teachaccess.org. We were looking at their toolkit. But they are very focused on university education and accessibility education within academia.

So definitely go to this... This would be a great starting point for you. Kind of scour their website. But reach out and contact them.

And they should be able to have... I mean, I'm sure they have resources for you. At the undergraduate space. Also, go ahead and get yourself on LinkedIn.

Develop that profile. Work on that. And start making connections. You can connect with me.

I will... You know, I will accept that connection. Start... You know, connecting with people in the digital accessibility space.

Because you'll start seeing their conversations in your feed. And right now, for me, LinkedIn is my favorite social space.

THOMAS: Great. I totally agree. It's great guidance. We thank you all for being here today, and thank you so much to Louise and Ken for the excellent presentation, our part 2.

So thank you.